Amused...

[katikat]

I'm having one of those pro vs. contra Bela discussions on one of the SPN forums with an avid fan of hers. Oh my, it feels so good to stay calm and collected in such a discussion and beat the opposition with facts! Ha!

I might re-read Timothy Zahn's Star Wars "Thrawn Trilogy" once more soon. After reading more than one book in the SW universe, I'm still convinced that this trilogy of Zahn's is the best one around!

I spent last night drabbling and reading Smallville fics. Lazy! :)

Comments

[layne67.livejournal.com]

Jason/Clark?

Or Jason/La(y)ne ;P

[llywela13.livejournal.com]

Ah, Bela. The controversy. I wanted so badly to like her - or, no. I wanted so badly for her to be a great character, well written and well acted, so that no one could help but enjoy her. Alas, for the dashing of those hopes.

Lazy evenings are love.

[katikat.livejournal.com]

Nope, Clex. And a future fic to that. I love future fics in that fandom! :)

[katikat.livejournal.com]

When I heard about those two new characters, I was convinced that I would like Bela more than Ruby. Unfortunately, Bela just never clicked for me. And the conversation I'm having with that rabid fan of hers is quite funny: I base my opinion on what I've seen of her so far, the fan on what we might see of her in the future. It's really apples and oranges *shakes head*

[llywela13.livejournal.com]

Ah, one o'those conversations. See, for me, it's getting to be too late for Bela to be turned around. I didn't need specifics as such too soon, but I did need to feel I understood her even a little bit in order to appreciate the character, and we've just never had that. And the actress has not convinced me even a tiny bit. So...no. It's just too late now, and that saddens me.

[nereem.livejournal.com]

I think both actresses aren't as strong but CHARACTER wise, Ruby makes more sense to me and I can see the appeal of her character, past and future.

Bela.

No.


End of.

[astri13.livejournal.com]

Oh my, it feels so good to stay calm and collected in such a discussion and beat the opposition with facts! Ha!

Hee. Bela, I`m seriously over her as in no matter what they do with her character it can only get less annoying but the train for "entertaining" or "interesting" has looong since passed. I violently do not care about her.

I might re-read Timothy Zahn's Star Wars "Thrawn Trilogy" once more soon. After reading more than one book in the SW universe, I'm still convinced that this trilogy of Zahn's is the best one around!

The original one? Yup, it got me into the Star Wars EU big time. Sadly later Zahn fell victim to extreme Mary Sue-dom of his characters, I`m afraid. The sequel duology occasionaly made me wanna bash my head against the wall.

Have you read the "A new hope" book circle? There were some great books in it too (some subpar ones also of course).

[katikat.livejournal.com]

You know, it's because of her that I stay spoiler-free. I really don't want to know how many episodes out of the four she'll polute with her presence. That would only make me depressed X(

[katikat.livejournal.com]

Exactly. If they wanted to keep her, they should have started to include her into the overall plotline from the get-go and not just let her plod from one ep to another with no direction whatsoever.

It also bothers me, how obsessed Kripke is with her. And people going all "Trust in Kripke" makes me all head-desk-y X(

[katikat.livejournal.com]

I hope that Kripke will get rid of her at the end of this season. I hope but I know that it won't happen. He's too smitten with her and it feels like he went totally deaf this season. So, I want at least for him to keep her appearance at a bare minimum! It's not too much to ask, right?

Yup, I read just the original trilogy. Man, I loved those books. Like really! Though I didn't read the "new hope" series. The last SW book that I did read was "The Courtship of Princess Leia" and it was kinda bad so it turned me off for a long time XP

[jamesinboots.livejournal.com]

I'm having one of those pro vs. contra Bela discussions on one of the SPN forums with an avid fan of hers. Oh my, it feels so good to stay calm and collected in such a discussion and beat the opposition with facts! Ha!

Honestly? I think that's kind of rude to do that to somebody (not to say this person wasn't rude in return - that could very much be the case! and it has nothing to do with who she's a fan or not a fan of). When a person genuinely likes a character, there are no "facts" that will trump their opinions. What are "facts" to you are not facts to someone else - interpretation is different, viewpoint is different (*reads up through comments* I think Lauren Cohan is one of the best actresses Supernatural's ever had, how's that for a differing opinion?).

This is why I avoid forums and certain large communities - these types of discussions are completely opinionated but everyone tries to prove they are right, when nobody is "right", you're all just of differing opinions. (And anybody who adamantly thinks they are right? I pretty much think they're a cunt. Talk about not being respectful of other people. Especially when it comes to whether one likes or dislikes a television character.) It's like a never-ending cycle, and all it leads to is bitterness and tautological discussion.

I love Bela, but I never go around to people who hate Bela and tell them their reasons for disliking her suck, or that I think they're raging haters for disliking her. They'd be offended and angered if I did such a thing, yes? And I get kind of offended when people do the same thing to me - like you've kind of done here. For, you know, what it's worth. *hands*

[astri13.livejournal.com]

So, I want at least for him to keep her appearance at a bare minimum! It's not too much to ask, right?

One can only hope. And while there is something valid to "creator has to follow their own vision, bla bla", it`s also a product he wants to sell to viewers so to me it`s imperative they listen to them, preferably before said viewers jump ship.

If the writers are in love with writing Bela as annoying, smug and superior to the actual leads as she has been, they can write fanfic about her and post it under sock puppet names. Ff.net is ripe with Mary Sue-fanfics, it would fit right in. :-p But leave it off the show, please.

The last SW book that I did read was "The Courtship of Princess Leia" and it was kinda bad so it turned me off for a long time XP

Aww, I thought that one was kind of cheesy fun, "Crystal Star" really sucked IMO. As did the Corellia trilogy, boring to the ninth. The Jedi Academy Trilogy, Callista Trilogy and Black Fleet were so-so.
And boy, did I read many SW-books. *g*

New Hope-wise I would rec you some but since it`s a rather tight arc, I imagine it would be difficult jumping right in, especially in my favorites "Star by Star" and "Traitor". Also it`s quite dark and dirty, much more so than the old Star Wars EU.

[katikat.livejournal.com]

How did I offend you posting something in my own livejournal, explain that to me. I know that you love Bela and I'm not stalking your LJ throwing hissy fits about that.

I have nothing against discussing a TV character. I presented my opinions in a thread about Bela vs. Ruby. I listed my reasons why I don't like her. Said fan went all capslocky on me. So I said okay, but... and listed other reasons. I didn't call anybody a cunt - which is more rude than just presenting facts.

I thought that we are all adults here, that we can talk like adults, present facts and list reasons. Maybe I was mistaken?

[katikat.livejournal.com]

Hehe, the Courtship book felt more like a fanfic. Although, if it was a fanfic, the prince and Luke would have hit it off and lived happily ever after together XD

[astri13.livejournal.com]

Although, if it was a fanfic, the prince and Luke would have hit it off and lived happily ever after together XD

Unless in the end Luke would have realized that Han is his twu wuv. *g*

[jamesinboots.livejournal.com]

Erk. I think I went about this all wrong, and kind of went off about things.

That's not what I said - I tried to imply that I'd be offended if I were the person you were saying those things about, and perhaps that stems from my own fear that certain people think I'm an idiot for liking Bela. I liked to think we can discuss this issue from opposite ends of the spectrum - though we have obviously butted heads about this before, probably back from my post in my journal about liking Red Sky. I know I have mentioned in your journal a few times that it offends me when people make me feel stupid for liking Bela. Up until this very minute, I felt comfortable sharing this with you, and I had no idea you'd take this the way you did, and I am so very sorry for that, but now I kind of feel twitchy. :-/

I thought that we are all adults here, that we can talk like adults, present facts and list reasons. Maybe I was mistaken?

I'd like to think we can do without being condescending.

But, honestly, if I say "I like character X", and someone responds with a list of reasons why they think character X is inherently dislikeable, I'm going to be a little offended. Though it depends on the setting, absolutely! If I ask people what they like about Bela in spn_bela, and someone walks in to list why they dislike her, I'd get offended and probably ban them. It's a fan community. But if it's a general discussion community, and somebody asks people why they like or dislike Bela, nothing wrong with pro/con lists, nothing wrong at all! That's what that's for!

This situation you're talking about, I knew nothing about, obviously. I just wanted to talk about some other issues that have been bothering me that spun up from that, and maybe I used the wrong place to go off on that tangent, and I apologize. I probably should have just e-mailed you.

I didn't call anybody a cunt - which is more rude than just presenting facts.

Just to clarify, I didn't say someone who just presents facts is a cunt. I was talking about people who think think they are so right that others must be wrong wrong wrong. It's rude, and belittles people of differing opinions.

eta - further to this, I've sent you an e-mail. <3

[katikat.livejournal.com]

I have never called nor considered anyone who likes Bela stupid. I do not understand your fondness of that character but I respect that. We can't like the same things, that's human nature.

I'm just used to discuss things openly, list pros and contras without resorting to coarse language. When someone tells me that they don't/do like a character/tv show/movie/book because a), b), c), when they can actually list reasons, I can accept that even if I have a different opinion. I can contradict with my own reasons and we can discuss that and come to the conclusion that we agree on disagreeing. I see no problem with that.

And I consider trolling comms/list dedicated to a character wrong. People who like it should join. People who don't like it should stay away.

[jamesinboots.livejournal.com]

Eep, I'm sorry! It's probably only my failing that nobody understands why I like Bela, lol. I try not to be too forward about why I like her, but maybe that's only making people not understand or "get" why I like her. I understand perfectly why other people dislike her, even if I don't relate or agree.

Ahhhhhh, I see, it's a language issue. Well, I know I tend towards the swear-like-a-sailor route. I think that's part of why I'm not so welcome in forums. ;) Sorry, I do it without ever thinking, and I forget that some people get offended by adult language, and I'll remember that it's not welcome in your journal. Eef. Sorry!

And I completely agree on the last point. Unfortunately, I've seen it happen far too many times. :-/ Some might argue that everybody has a right to express an opinion wherever they want. I argue that they don't where what they say might be hurtful or offensive to others. :(

[katikat.livejournal.com]

I never understood trolls. I see it a lot on the TV.com site. I mean, there is someone who is purposely lowering the ratings of shows like Psych or Eureka and that makes me angry and sad. I don't like Lost but I'm not trolling their comms either.

*g* I try to not swear at all, though it's very very hard sometimes. Me and nuns, really. I don't drink (I mean at all, no bear, no alcohol for me), I don't smoke, I don't do drugs, I don't swear... I think I'm kind of weird *head/desk*

And with Bela, it's kind of weird, you know? I love strong female characters - Ellen, Sarah, Tamara... I like Ruby, for pete's sake, and she can be a real hussy. I think my biggest problem with her is that she doesn't seem to have any connection at all to the main plot. If they hinted at her working for Lilith or anything... A phone call would be enough: "Yes, I met the Winchester boys and you were right, they are more fun than a sack full of puppies." I would be intrigued. But as it is, I just really feel like who cares :(

[jamesinboots.livejournal.com]

Oh, EXACTLY. It's so stupid, but where this is the Internet, there will be trolls, unfortunately. :-/

Hee hee, I drink on rare occasions, but I don't smoke or do drugs.

I think my biggest problem with her is that she doesn't seem to have any connection at all to the main plot.

Actually, that's the thing I love best about her! I don't know, it just feels like to me, if she were part of the main plot, she'd have been shoehorned in, I guess (I guess this is why people often call Ruby a deus ex machina, though I don't agree with that EITHER). As it is, having her show as someone not part of the world, it's just different for the show, and I like the dynamic - it makes it more plausible for me that she could eventually, naturally, fall into the main plot. Hmph. Of course, I could be wrong, and she's been doing something behind the scenes this whole time - I saw someone theorize once that she's supposed to be following the boys for Lilith, but I dunno. We'll see. <3

[matimate.livejournal.com]

I am scared to the death by power of fangirls. It is very interesting subculture and i suggested it as a mean for the postgraduate research to my friend as a theme for her dissertation:)

You should you should and i will do the same * wink*

[katikat.livejournal.com]

I've been quite disappointed by the SW books lately :( Sometimes I think that Zahn's are the only readable ones out there...

[matimate.livejournal.com]

I had the same feeling with Star Wars books, they are mostly trash, but sometimes funny:)
Zahn is the best I have ever read from Star Wars Universe. I am simply in love with Thrawn...he is so manly and so smart * swoon*