Supernatural 516

[katikat]

Loved it! I love how they systematically break down these characters, especially Dean, how they keep undermining their strengths. Great continuity there! Because...

... can you imagine S1-3!Dean or even S4!Dean ever saying yes to Michael? Sure, he was all bluster on the outside, but deeply insecure on the inside but he still had Sam and he was convinced that he was doing the right thing. Now though? Other hunters are trying to kill them, angels and demons are after them, God doesn't care and they have no idea how to stop the apocalypse - and seeing Sam's heaven? Ouch!

I think it's great that the writers turned the characters upside down - Sam's now the strong one who keeps them going whereas before he was all depressed and woobie-ish; Dean used to be the driving force but now he feels like he's losing everything and he just can't anymore, knowing that he possibly holds the key to salvation - Sam can't say yes to Lucifer but Dean's yes to Michael would solve everything, but can he actually trust Michael to do the right thing? It's a fantastic continuity there, building up Sam while tearing apart Dean, I'm glad that the writers didn't just dump all the horror and sorrow on the boys and let them bounce back again. That would be ridiculous.

I like the fact that the show's getting more and more depressing. Oh, don't get me wrong, I like humor but you can't have funny stuff when the frickin' apocalypse is knocking on the door. They can't afford huge, epic battles on TV budget, so it's great that they focus on the disintegration of the characters which is something most shows/movies simply skip over.

It was great to see Ash and Pamela again!

What a great episode, really! And again, if you didn't like the ep, whine in your own LJ and don't rain on my parade? I love where the show's headed. Fantastic job, Mr. Kripke!

ETA: Ash talking about soulmates - does that mean that Sam and Dean are soulmates because they could move freely between their own heavens?

Promo for 517!

Comments

[leoraine.livejournal.com]

I also loved this epi! Also, agree with everything you said. In this show, it's all about the characters and I love the way Sam has *grown up* and is the one who supports Dean, even while Dean is losing faith in everything. The scene with Castiel was also great. I can't wait for more scenes with him, preferably where he get's angry on Dean's behalf, lol.

[katikat.livejournal.com]

I'm curious where they'll take Castiel from here. I mean, he's an angel with barely any power and without any faith left...

[sharona1x2.livejournal.com]

I enjoyed the episode, but I can understand why some of my friends didn't. I'm an atheist, so the whole mythology arc isn't as personal to me as it is to other people.

My favorite part was the scene at the end, with Castiel. Watching him come to terms with the situation was very intense. Kudos to Misha for playing it so well.

EDIT: I'm reading some of the reaction posts at dean_sam. I didn't have nearly as strong a reaction to the episode as some people there did. Maybe being a non-shipper makes me feel the shifts in dynamics between Sam and Dean a little less? *loves them both pretty equally*

[katikat.livejournal.com]

I don't know, I'm Catholic - though not rigid, or something - but I don't mind this storyline at all. I mean, we do have free speech and who can tell that Kripke's vision is more or less wrong than the Pope's? *shrugs* I'm cool with that.

But ouch for Dean - when he realized that none of Sam's fond memories included him or his family, the way he said "I thought it should be us against the world"... And when he threw the amulet away - I think that he did it because he realized that he was hanging onto something that wasn't real. And Sam's look!

[twilight-angel.livejournal.com]

This was a very awesome episode. I love love love Dean's first memory of Sam on the Fourth. And Ash FTW!!! :D Of course he's figured out how to cross into other people's heavens. And the computer that tracks angels? Awesome. And Ash is right: the boys really do die more than anyone else I've ever seen (outside of the Marvel Comics 'verse, of course).

I really like the disintegration of Dean's character and his beliefs, and it's a great foil to Sam's characterization, that turnabout you mentioned. And the continuity! Too many episodic shows, even when on a mythological arc like this, tend to sweep off reactions to a particular episode, but SPN never does that.

You know, my previous idea a few months ago was that Sam would say yes to Lucifer first and Dean's yes would be a reaction to it. But now I'm wondering if Dean says yes to Michael first and Sam's is the reactionary one...

Omg, the way that Ash kind of paused and looked meaningfully at Sam and Dean before mentioning soulmates was hilarious. Like, his brain finally catches up with his mouth, and he's all, "Soulmates share the same heaven, and...you two brothers...were sharing the same heaven...shit. Oops." Ah, Kripke proves once more that playing with the minds of his wincest fans is entertaining to him. :p

[katikat.livejournal.com]

The soulmates part was so funny! The way Ash looked at them - and then the way they looked at each other! Ha!

But it broke my heart when Dean saw Sam's fond memories - and none of them was about him, that obviously he cared more for Sam than Sam did for him. It just... It crushed me. And Sam's face when Dean threw away the amulet!

[twilight-angel.livejournal.com]

When Dean through away his amulet, I was yelling at the TV, "No, Dean! You pick that up RIGHT NOW!!!" *wibble* And of course Sam's happiest memories were those without his family, and I think a part of Dean suspected that. Just, having it confirmed was this huge slap in the face.

Actually (excuse me while I pull out my mad English major skills for a second), it's really interesting that this entire show has been all about free will versus the inevitability of fate (especially this season). While I don't foresee this show ending in tragedy (well, I hope not! Kripke keeps surprising me!), the sheer inevitability is stunning. The inevitability that Dean was going to Hell no matter what, that the last Seal was going to be opened, that the apocalypse was not going to be stopped, that Sam and Dean will both eventually say yes. This is the episode right here where Dean decides that maybe it wouldn't be so bad to say yes to Michael, if only because he literally has nothing else.

Okay, so, if God's on Earth, any speculation on what He's up to? Skeeball, perhaps? :p

[mercilynn]

I love this ep, for sure. The acting and writing was fantastic.

ETA: Ash talking about soulmates - does that mean that Sam and Dean are soulmates because they could move freely between their own heavens?

In my world - YES. *g*

[katikat.livejournal.com]

Sam and Dean as soulmates... It would be quite fitting, even in a perfectly gen way. Those two really are codependent.

[creedcascade.livejournal.com]

The comment about soulmates and then the pointed look Ash gave Sam and Dean? I think that really the writers were referencing John and Mary as soulmates... or, the fact that Sam's soul mate wasn't Jessica. Hmmm... he goes to heaven and the apparent love of his life isn't there?

[katikat.livejournal.com]

I don't know, I don't think so. Why would Ash give Sam and Dean the LOOK while thinking of John and Mary?

This episode was so incredibly sad - Sam's best memories are the worst moments of Dean's life :'(

[keire-ke.livejournal.com]

SPN should really be entitled "let's all fire shots at Dean and see how long does it take for him to break." I loved the episode, though I did think they could have thrown Dean a bone, showed his and Sam's happy memory together. I don't believe that was all Sam had - I think it was more about elation itself, not precisely what made them happy in that moment. Still, what chilled me the most was Dean's memory with Mary - he was four and he was already looking after his mother, cleaning up dad's messes as Sam said? Especially when obviously he knew just what to say to make it better? That's heartbreaking.

About the soulmates thing - absolutely, without a moment's hesitation. :D Being soulmates to me is having kinship of spirit and love, no matter what kind, not necessarily romantic love. Agape, no eros, as the Greeks would say.

Altogether, this was a very bleak vision of Heaven for me. I can't help but hope that the series would go a similar route as His Dark Materials and end up with a revolution in Heaven and Hell. Fat chance, I know, what with this being a show on American TV, but still.

[katikat.livejournal.com]

I would love to see the soulmates thing explored. It would be great if Sam and Dean were soulmates and it was shown in a totally gen, brotherly kind of way. It would be refreshing, if being soulmates had nothing to do with sex for once.